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Post by happyshep on Apr 18, 2009 23:51:23 GMT -5
After going through your responses to the first thread, an idea for a second discussion revealed itself. What makes fanfiction more addictive or appealing than ordinary fiction or romance fiction?It seems as though people become drawn to fanfiction because it gives names to the fantasies and daydreams which they have previously experienced -- eg. hurt/comfort, angst, whump, even the adult genres -- and these labels reassure a person that what they are experiencing is shared by many and is therefore normal. Is this a large or minor part of fanfiction's appeal? As for it being addictive, after reading your previous responses my initial theory is that since most often it is long, expansive sagas which inspire fanfiction (eg. Lord of the Rings, Stargate, Harry Potter, X-Men) viewers develop a long-term committment to the characters. This is unlike a singular book or film which tends not to last as long. But I want to know what you think.
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Post by karababe64 on Apr 19, 2009 1:35:39 GMT -5
I have been reading fanfiction for close to two years now. Over that time I have only really read fic from one main fandom (NCIS). I may read fic in other fandoms occasionally but I have found that they don't hold my interest for very long even if I enjoy the TV show/movie.
I have always been a big reader. Growing up I used to enjoying reading books that were part of a long series like Nancy Drew/The Hardy Boys because the characters were familiar. Fanfic replaces that. I only read fanfic that is in character because I feel like I know them and want to read more about their lives. You don't have to establish a connection with the main character because you already have one from what you have read/watched previously.
Also if your the sort of person who can visualize what they are reading, a well written fic is almost like watching another episode of the show that you love.
Hurt/comfort, angst and whump are my favorite categories of fanfic. Even before I discovered fanfic, my favorite stories were the ones where the main character got hurt in some way, the more serious the better, and I would dream about myself/or characters I read about, being in those sort of situations. Fanfic allows me to satisfy the cravings for these feelings.
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Post by lockea on Apr 19, 2009 9:59:24 GMT -5
I think it's because I'm lazy. I love reading originals and stuff, but it takes so long to get into the characters and care about what they're going through in the story. In fanfiction, since all of the characterization has been done already, it's simply a matter of saying 'could I see this character in this situation?' and if the answer is 'yes,' then it's easy to get into a story.
For me, the fandoms I get most attached to tend to be the ones with lots of angst and h/c in canon. Even though most people find that sort of thing cliched, I love it. I love to watch the show/play the game and then click on fanfiction and maybe read more angst.
To continue off of what karababe64 said, I also only read fanfiction where the characters are acting in character, with the one exception being Alternate Character Interpretations (ACI). TVtropes.org tends to call this "Draco in Leather Pants" after, of course, a fanfiction writer who once wrote Draco Malfoy as a snarky anti-hero who wore leather pants.
ACI is pretty much an excuse to break character, but only when substantial thought is put into the character. I'm going to have to use Sephiroth, the main villain from Final Fantasy VII, as an example, because he's one of the worst (best?) cases. The game creators have come out and said, multiple times, that Sephiroth is evil. Pure evil, and nothing will ever change that. Yet, fanfiction writers love to take a look into Sephiroth's past based on the few scant clues were given in canon-- that Sephiroth was pretty much a science experiment, had an isolated childhood, was betrayed by the two people closest to him, and thinks his mom is the alien Hive Queen (no joke). Fanfiction writers love to rewrite him as a victim of circumstance, rather than an evil-to-end-all-evil villain. It's for that reason that you will rarely ever find a fanfiction that portrays him as anything other than emotionally and socially stunted (and maybe slightly vindictive about it), which makes for a great H/C fic.
So, I love stories like that. I love the ones that challenge canon and factors in the little shades of gray. It's addictive to read the reasons, the possibilities, and the reinterpretations of a character (especially villains with tragic pasts). Those tend to be the stories I read most often.
As far as your theory about fanfiction writers developing a long term connection with the characters... That may be true for most people, but I'm primarily attached to shorter fandoms where so much is left unexplained and to be explored in fanfiction. I'm not a huge fan of 'monster of the week' style series (Law and Order, NCIS, Pokemon) or of book series that run on for more than two or three books. I'm usually a fan of short series and trilogies. I will very rarely play a series'd game where each game builds on the others in the series (Resident Evil, for example). Because of the shortness of a series, so much gets left off from the characters, and I love to use fanfiction as a way to fill in those blanks. So, the short series tend to be the ones I become most attached to.
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Post by marchwriter on Apr 19, 2009 10:07:46 GMT -5
I believe it's very easy to fall into fanfiction once you know it's there because changes are, you are familiar with and are invested in the characters already. You know them. Reading fanfic is like greeting an old friend on the street. Picking up an unfamiliar book on a shelf in Border's, then, is like meeting a stranger: you circle warily, you introduce yourself, you don't know anything about past history or shared interests...you might get bitten or urinated on. You don't know. With fanfiction, you know. You are comfortable. I think that's where a lot of the appeal comes from.
That you are not alone in your strangeness is oddly reassuring too.
Marchwriter
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vexed
New Member
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Post by vexed on Apr 19, 2009 11:21:33 GMT -5
I agree we know the characters . We already have a strong feeling about them. Sometimes it's love others it is hate.
I know some people think its just the same recycled ideas from the shows , that is not true.
Sure some are for closure who has not seen a episode of any show and was just like 'that's it!' 'what a dumb way to end it' or something along those lines.
Also when they kill off a beloved person in the canon setting we can alter it. Allow that person to have a rich and long life.
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Post by mpbrennan on Apr 19, 2009 12:36:54 GMT -5
For me, it's not so much that fanfic is more addictive than published fiction--most of the time it's simply more accessible. When choosing a book from the library or a bookstore, there's always a certain amount of commitment involved--the money you pay for the book or the time it takes to return it to the library, whatever. Then, if you don't like it, you're still out ten bucks. When you read a fanfic that's completely terrible or that you just can't get into, it's a simple matter of hitting the "back" button and choosing another until you find one that you like. I guess I'm lazy in a different way.
I would agree, though, that the presence of familiar characters makes it easier to connect. As a kid I was always into longer series like Animorphs or "universes" like the Star Wars books. Connecting with a familiar character is just easier, whether you're a reader or a writer.
The appeal of community is definitely strong. There's nothing quite like meeting another author online and discovering that you share the same types of character interpretations. As far as searching for normalcy in fan fiction, I would agree with that. There is a certain catharsis in reading a dark story, even if it's far darker than anything you would ever publish, because it's a relief to know that you're not the only one who's ever thought about these things.
Quick question: my internet vocabulary is slowly expanding, but . . . "whump"?
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Post by spockishgirl on Apr 19, 2009 13:11:32 GMT -5
I get addicted to fanfiction because it keeps me going when the show is over. Fanfiction puts the wants of the fans in motion. I want more h/c in the show itself, watching it is even better, but when it doesn't happen, fanfiction can put my h/c cravings to rest. :-) You can do whatever you want to the characters in fanfic and not worry about "the ratings". I love to hurt them as much as possible, but keep them alive. :-D
Quick question: my internet vocabulary is slowly expanding, but . . . "whump"?
Whump is like hurting a character. Like...beating, torturing, stabbing, etc. :-)
Fanfic keeps me satiated. :-)
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Post by space1traveler on Apr 19, 2009 14:52:29 GMT -5
Being a reader of fanfic and not a writer I see fanfiction as a way to continue to get good entertainment. That said, I think it goes deeper than that.
Like karababe64: "I feel like I know them and want to read more about their lives", and get to know them better. I too have watched shows where the hero was written like a hero. Mostly 'he' was in frequent danger, oft times finding himself in a predicament that resulted in injury or 'whumping'. I would then spend hours going over the scene in my head and re-whumping him again and again only to be the one who nursed him back to health, saved him in the nick of time, or took his place and died in his arms. He was always very grateful; loved me forever; cried big tears (never to be consoled) and we lived happily ever after or he didn't because I was gone, hence he continued to be angst-ridden forever. Sometimes I thought I was bad for doing this.
Lockea said, "...fanfiction writers love to take a look into...past based on the few scant clues [that] were given in cannon..." As a reader, I like to see the character grow but not change. Therefore every author is given the opportunity to stretch the character, make him more or less than he is, take him to the brink of death; let him be silly; let him go into killer mode, etc. The only pre-requisite is that they pull him back together and before the final healing scene is over give me clues or concrete evidence that he is different but unchanged from being 'my hero'. Then the loop continues and he can be hurt and comforted again. This is why I abhor deathfics. I will not read them unless I am told the story is not a deathfic in the summary. I don't care how dark it is (unless its sexual, don't care for dark sexual fics) but he must not die.
I have read a some fics where the warning was not given. The stories were excellent. The writing was superb and then, bam, John was gone, forever. I was broken. My feelings were so tied up in the happenings of the story that I grieved the ending of my hero. This is too much and some may say that its just a story but as a reader I transcend my reality and I'm there in the moment. TV puts advertisments in and this gives you a break to come back to yourself. The fics transport you away and when you are standing right there beside John Sheppard and he's shot, you feel the blood splatter on your face. To know that he is dead, it breaks your heart. Takes time to recover from that, 'Real time".
Marchwriter said something I would like to comment on: "That you are not alone in your strangeness is oddly reassuring too." When I found fan fiction and was reading my first story I realized that the phrasing of the author was like the way I spoke to my self. It was my 'inside' voice using my 'inside' words and catch phrases. I thought, Oh, my goodness! I've found my people! They think like I think, I'm not weird! Okay, I am weird but now the weirdness was a community and not an I'm out here by myself thing. That relaxed me a whole lot.
Another reason that fan fiction is so addictive to me is the use of the 'Review/Comments' device. Not only do I get to enter a different world but I can communicate with those who already reside in this world. I am not in a room with a book that I have to shove under the covers if I hear someone coming. Or looking at pictures that I can not show to others. I am reading legitiment product that I have been asked to comment on. My brain is not being amused it is being engaged. If I don't like it, I won't reply because I know how difficult it is to write and then to get the courage to put it out there. I don't want to discourage anyone. If I love it, I want them to know that and WHY I love it. Then creme' de la creme', they (authors) send a reply. Sometimes a dialog is born and occassionaly a friendship develops. You can't do that with TV!
Another thing is I try not to read WIP or unfinished pieces. Because it hurts me when I get to a point in a story and find out that the author was unable to continue for whatever reason. I feel like I have been transferred to another school right in the middle of the school term. In the back of your mind you wonder what happened, did they get back home, how did it turn out? People always say they'll write, but they never do. Sadness.
Why fan fiction? In fan fiction the author controls the ordinariness of it or he/she can add the romance to make their fan fiction any genre. There are no limits to what can be done with fan fiction. And because fan fiction is my own private world of friends, a place where I'm accepted for who I am. It has nothing to do with my religion, my ideology, my race, my gender, my tallness, my looks, my intelligence. It has everything to do with who I introduce myself as and who I truly am 'inside'. The me I know.
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Post by happyshep on Apr 19, 2009 23:20:44 GMT -5
Here are some great replies! Thank you very much To summarize your ideas with my own, FF appeals because: - It is easier to connect with because the characters and settings are already familiar.
- FF builds onto and revisits the angst and H/C which doesn't occur as often as we would like it to in the canon.
- FF has no limits. Its genres are casual and overlap very easily.
- Writers find confidence and support within a community of like-minded readers who share enthusiasm for frequently ridiculed genres such as slash, H/C and sheer female fantasy. Readers are also reassured that their interests are "normal".
- Setbacks present in the canon (eg. advertisements, poor acting, repetitive themes, unwanted character traits, unwanted character death) can be erased and modified within fanfiction. The act of visualizing a story in our own way also makes the experience feel more realistic. (Thank you space1traveler for this point!)
- Characters can be completely morphed into something more preferred -- Lockea provided an excellent example with her description of Sephiroth.
- FF is free, accessible and interactive.
- Writers develop a strong committment to their readers who provide support and feedback.
A few of your points are incredibly insightful, and I would like to continue exploring them in seperate discussions. I believe that we should move on to these new threads but you are welcome to make further comments on this one if you feel that there is something which we missed.
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jagfan
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JAG=>NCIS=>NCIS:v.2
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Post by jagfan on Apr 20, 2009 8:48:04 GMT -5
hmmmm.... I know the focus on your research is H/C, and the readers & writers here are fans of that genre, but I'm not sure I would agree with this phrase in point #2: ....H/C which doesn't occur as often as we would like it to in the canon.
Of course, I can only speak for myself, but for me it's not about whumping up on the characters or simply adding in more action/adventure. When characters (or R/L people) are placed in jeopardy, they often uncover truths about themselves they didn't know -- not always pleasant ones.
That's the big draw for me. Danger as a catalyst to understanding and growth. - Does the hero/ine make the noble choice, or the one which provides the better chance of survival? - When faced with almost-certain death from an unknown toxin does s/he crumble, keep pushing for the answer, or, take time to talk to the people who matter most and to say things that have been left unsaid? - Is the brilliant profiler able to survive alone and injured, without backup, in the wrong neighborhood or in a remote area? - Can the computer geek come through when brawn matters, and vice-versa, can the tough-guy devise a way out of his predicament?
After all of the 'hurt' comes the 'comfort' part of the equation. - Whether the connection is platonic, familial, or romantic, nearly losing someone can force you to re-evaluate your relationship. - Did what the character went through cause him/her to do the same? - Does s/he just want toget back to the way things were, or make career or lifestyle changes? - Does s/her want to be left alone or surrounded by friends -- or one special friend or lover? - Was what happened bad enough to cause physical or psychological issues requiring treatment? - Will there be long-term effects, such as PTSD, physical rehabilitation, or coming to terms with a permanent disability?
Obviously, not every story is going to cover these in depth, and I enjoy reading and writing a good H/C PWP just as much as a character study or case-file. However, considering these issues is a large part of the writing process for me. As for reading, I prefer stories that deal with the issues, or at least hint at possible problems in the future. TLC is great, but even in a PWP, kisses do not "make it all better".
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Post by azalea3 on Apr 20, 2009 21:13:34 GMT -5
I just wanted to add that many of your ideas of Fanfictions appeal, don't necessarily hold true for the earliest days of fandom. I would only agree with number 1, 3 and 6 in the days before the net. Fan writing 30 years ago was mostly solitary, and there was very little feedback. Most people wrote for themselves, and discussion with distant fans was difficult. Delays of several years was common between a story being submitted and finally published.
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Post by happyshep on Apr 20, 2009 21:43:01 GMT -5
Jagfan, I have a feeling that not all H/C readers search for much more than whump in a fic. It seems to me that most H/C fics tend to follow a particular pattern; character 1 is hurt, character 2 provides the healing and character 1 recovers into perhaps a stronger state, but not a dramatically changed one. Death fics and stories which disfigure or retard a protagonist for life seem to be painful for many readers. But I welcome you to disagree with me, otherwise I'll never get anywhere Azalea3, thank you very much for pointing this out. This is something which I will make a note of. Considering what you have said, I would rather say that FF's appeal has expanded as it moved onto the internet, but there are fundamental aspects which have always sustained the core of its existance.
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Post by azalea3 on Apr 21, 2009 0:18:50 GMT -5
I would rather say that FF's appeal has expanded as it moved onto the internet, but there are fundamental aspects which have always sustained the core of its existance.
This is correct. The most fundamental aspects of fan fiction reading and writing for me wasn't about connecting with other fans, I did that by being a member of a SF club. I'm still a member of a Star Trek club since 1982. If I want to discuss a fan story I've read I don't usually go on line, I walk down the street and visit one of my long time club members and talk about it face to face over a cup of coffee or a glass of wine. Our last discussion happened to be about Sperana's new SGA story. And we chatted for a couple of hours about Sheppard's background, and other hot topics in SF.
I'm lucky in that my old fan group is still intact and very much reading and following fan fiction. but I realize my experience with fanfiction is very different from what is the norm now. I find the ease of communicating with other fans amazing. I haven't been active on line because I was mostly getting the feed back I needed without logging on. My group has just started to use the net among ourselves to post our fanworks. This is the first discussion group I have ever participated in.
Writing was always a solitary event for me. Feedback from long distance didn't exist, so I don't expect it. But when I want to float story ideas I usually ask my friends, because they have been reading as long as I have and can talk about stories across four decades. We can't do that online because we need to protect the privacy of the early writers, who wrote under their own names. That's a hard problem to get around. There is some amazing writing out there that will never be seen again. It's a real bummer.
I hope this gives you some idea of the difference between my perspective and the younger fan's perspective. I am working on a long post about early H-C and how it differs from current ideas, and how the meaning of the term has changed. I think you might find it interesting.--Azalea
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Post by happyshep on Apr 21, 2009 19:46:41 GMT -5
This sort of information as a published source is non-existant. Your input is extremely valuable and I would be most eager to hear your insights on this topic. Were you intending to post your information on this site or elsewhere? On this site members are very welcome to start their own topics to create space for new discussions.
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Post by stealthdragon on Apr 21, 2009 23:28:38 GMT -5
Simply put, I think fanfic is addicting because it gives us exactly what we want - well, for me it does . And not "exactly" exactly, because if you're picky like me then nothing can ever be exact . But it still provides what original fiction and the show the fanfic is based on often doesn't. As others have said - a deeper look at the characters we love. A specific genre or pairing. (H/C, het, slash) More of something (like sex) or less of something (like, well, no sex or even sensuality . Once you get into a fandom, get to know it's authors, who to read and who not to read, then you're pretty much set when it comes to reading what satiates. Fanfic is familiarity, where-as original fiction and new TV shows are strangers. Plus, in the case of TV shows, there's no guarantee that these strangers will stick around long enough for us to get to know and love. With original fiction, there's no guarantee that we'll love the characters, and if we don't, then we just wasted money or gas finding out. Heh, of course, without original novels and TV shows, there wouldn't be a fandom now would there . That said, although fanfic does satsify certain cravings, there will always be a need to expand beyond our comfort zone in order to discover what else is out there. I just wanted to point that out because I feel like I wasn't being fair to TV and books
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