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Post by happyshep on Apr 20, 2009 0:41:45 GMT -5
Moving on from our previous discussions, I would like to now focus a bit more on H/C. Stabotage mentioned that she would "be interested in seeing topics posted that would allow us to talk about our fandoms, the preferred characters that we like to see hurt and the relationship pairings... or the generic relationship (family or teammates, for example) they look for in fanfic." Although you are welcome to start your own topics centrally focused on a particular fandom, in this thread you will be able to discuss all fandoms. I would like you to imagine your favourite character from your favourite fandom. This is the character that you love to whump and see whumped. - What is it about this character which makes them so attractive and important to you?
- How do you like to see them suffer and how do you like to see them healed?
- What kind of relationships do you like to see them involved in?
- Is this character the same in the canon as they are in fandom, or have they been altered in some way?
An optional question if you have the time: Can you explain why for each of these points?
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Post by mpbrennan on Apr 20, 2009 10:17:52 GMT -5
'Kay. Guess I'll jump right in. Of my three fandoms, Battlestar Galactica offers me the greatest variety of characters, so I'll go with that one. My favorite character, at least for h/c would have to be Felix Gaeta. Since I think I'm the only BSG fan at the moment, let me know if there's anything I need to elaborate on further.
I guess I like him because he stands out, despite being a secondary character with relatively few lines. In a cast of fairly hot-tempered military characters, he's a bit of a geek--smarter than the others, but more quiet and reserved. He's like a younger brother who is just a little too sensitive and a little too naive to get through life unscathed, especially life in the BSG-verse. It's a show that's all about very bad things happening to people, and they seem to happen to Felix more often than most. I like to see him whumped because it's canon. He takes a beating, physically and emotionally. First his own crewmates try to murder him. Then another of his crewmates blows his leg off. Then his best friend commits suicide, he nearly dies of oxygen deprivation, and he eventually is executed by firing squad after betraying and/or being betrayed by nearly everyone he knows. Cheerful show, huh?
In canon his arc was simply a downward spiral with almost no possibility for redemption. In fanfic, we like to take that arc and turn it on its head. We break him in different ways, but then we put him back together again. We show him recovering or getting a happy ending or just achieving a greater measure of peace before the end. I'm working on one such WIP and discovering that it's much harder to put him back together than it is to take him apart.
'Ships aren't really my thing, but many authors adore his pairings. He's been called the "little black dress" of our fandom--he goes with anything. In canon he is presented as bisexual, but nearly all fic leans towards slash, with many out-and-out saying that he is homosexual, not bisexual. When forced to write a ship for him, I prefer his canon relationship with a male because it is quite literally the only good thing that happens to him in four seasons. Many authors delve more into the destructive relationships, such as his unrequited affection for the narcissistic Doctor Baltar. I guess when I do write 'ships, I lean towards a very naive interpretation of love. Love that conquers all rather than love that brings about your total annihilation. Corny, I know, and not at all in keeping with the show, which is why I don't write it much.
Within the relatively small "Gaeta Squee" community, the character does have a slightly different "fanon" interpretation. Out of affection, we tend to exaggerate traits like intelligence and nobility. At the same time, we also play up traits that make him easier to whump. In canon, he's portrayed as being angry and bitter after the (first) murder attempt. In fanon, he is all that with a side of PTSD. As I've stated earlier, his sexuality is read as slightly different than what we were presented with. Overall, we choose to interpret him as a tragic hero--doomed for the very traits that make him noble. I would argue that this is supported by canon, but there are many in the fandom who now consider him a villain.
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Post by Febobe on Apr 20, 2009 11:41:59 GMT -5
I am the founder/group "owner," and moderator of the FrodoHealers Yahoogroup, which is a hurt/comfort group dedicated to Frodo Baggins (Lord of the Rings) non-slash h/c free of profanity and sex, so this topic is of definite interest to me. (Thanks for sending the link to Middle-earth News!) I founded FrodoHealers in 2002 because of my passion for Frodo h/c and my (rather startled) discovery that I was far from alone in my feelings. As far as *why* precisely we all like it so much, I'm sure everyone has her own reasons (I've discovered the vast majority of us are female), but here are my thoughts on my own rationale: *Probably there is something about the inherent nature of hobbits that makes "FrodoHealing" appealing. . .tough as they are, they seem small and vulnerable, almost childlike, and that tends to bring out a maternal instinct. For someone like me who has no RL children to exercise that instinct on, the urge has to get release SOMEWHERE. This is a safe way to do it without annoying people. *Why Frodo, out of all the hobbits? (Some people prefer PippinHealing, after all, which is still beyond me , but to each her own!) Well, I think that's because I developed a strong attachment to the character early on, when I read the books as a child. This has somewhat more serious implications, I think, in that I relate closely to Frodo (I too have had that sense of not being able to "go home again" and being wounded beyond all hope of returning to "normal" due to life circumstances which I won't get into here), and in some ways, FrodoHealing is both exercising that maternal instinct and perhaps healing myself. I find it's very effective therapy. *How do I like to see Frodo suffer and how do I like to see them healed? Generally there are a few ways: one - my "specialty" - very popular fics of mine - diseases or disorders (often, though not always, infectious) NOT included in canon. Totally AU. We're talking stuff like "Lavender's Blue," my plague fic. Seriously fun to write (though it made me cry), seriously fun to see reader reactions, but totally enough to make J.R.R. Tolkien roll over in his grave several times. Two - canon illness or injury expanded upon. I might take canon illness or injuries and explore them further, such as Frodo's injuries after Mount Doom or his anniversary illnesses; these are pure canon, just - Tolkien didn't explore them in the depth that I like to! Three - pure attempts to provide "gapfiller" and nothing more, just canon gapfiller. Of these, I think I prefer one and two over three, though I do enjoy the reviews for all three. Every writer likes to be appreciated, and some people just prefer gapfiller, so. . . . Personally I can't choose to write JUST one, so I write whatever suits me at the time. That's how I like to see Frodo suffer. How I like to see him healed: oh, I use all kinds of methods. The same principles apply, but as far as actual methods, I use everything from elvish healing to herbal medicines to baths to food (I use a lot of "dietary" approaches simply because he's a hobbit; food would be a big thing in their culture) to traditional folk remedies which seem consistent with Shire practices. Depends on the story. But always, always, there must be a ton of TLC, and the story needs to be completely Frodo-centric. I'm particular about the methods simply because I'm a librarian, and I know how to do the research, and I have acccumulated quite a library on this stuff, so. . .it's a big deal to me. As far as the TLC goes, I guess I just feel like it's something people deserve when they're seriously ill. . .especially Frodo, of all "people!" *My favorite relationships to see Frodo in? Well, I don't generally do Frodo-in-romantic-relationships stories, but as far as caregivers go, I prefer Eowyn or Arwen as first choices, though I'm also a sucker for Elrond or Celebrian (when well written/executed), Sam or Rosie, Faramir or possibly Aragorn. My favorites to write tend to be the female "Big Folk" caregivers (Eowyn, Arwen, or Celebrian). Those are the most relaxing for me. I think perhaps this is because I relate most closely to them - the "Mary-Sue" effect, yeah. It's a double Mary-Sue effect b/c of relating to Frodo, of course, which makes the writing all the more relaxing! *Oh, I think Frodo in fandom is very much a "fanon" version of Frodo rather than a canon version, though some people and some occasions are closer written to canon than others. I think that h/c Frodo, as I call him, is probably a more passive character than the Frodo of the books (though not totally passive - I've seen my h/c Frodo and that of others throw some real stubborn streaks!), though the courage that always shines through is, IMO, canon. Remember, courage is not the absence of fear, but "fear that has said its prayers," so to speak. Frodo is the absolute embodiment of that phrase to me, both in fanon and in canon. I think Frodo has been altered because strictly canon Frodo just needs a little "tweaking" to make him the kind of "model patient" we want to "play with." Sort of like making your cat or dog cooperate with being dragged around to play dolls. ;P Only Frodo can't fight back! Does that answer the questions? I hope so. . .I'll try to follow this a bit as I can, as this really interests me. Cheers, Febobe (I got the nickname from FBoBE - "Frodo Baggins of Bag End" - so my nickname became "Febobe!")
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Post by lockea on Apr 20, 2009 18:28:02 GMT -5
I've found that in all my favorite fandoms, the characters I love to whump on all share similar profiles: young (teens, 20s), male, usually androgynous, tragic backstory, with hints of in-series abuse already present. Though these can vary, I have never, ever encountered a female character who, despite potentially having a tragic backstory, I've felt comfortable reading whump fics. For some reason, reading a whump fic where a female character is hurt is intensely bothersome for me. My favorite character to whump on, however, is Soren the tactician from Fire Emblem 9 (Path of Radiance) and 10 (Radiant Dawn). I'll use him for the questions, despite his obscurity. So, the questions: 1) What is it about this character which makes them so attractive and important to you?I'm not quite sure why, exactly. I think I fell in love with him initially because of his snark and intelligence. Soren comes off at first as crabby and mean spirited and he willingly fights his own allies because of his hatred and prejudice towards the Laguz (two-form animal/human shape shifters who look like beast people in their human form). Initially, I had mixed emotions about him, because he was amusing and quick in battle, but also mean and prone to make even his allies mad at him. Even though he managed to make me hate him for a while (he crossed a line when he nearly got a teammate killed because of his prejudice), he eventually won me over when a side conversation revealed that he had experienced abuse and neglect as a small child. Though his full story wasn't revealed until Radiant Dawn (FE10) came out, this, alongside the fact that Soren is a member of the game's most distrusted and hated races, made me love him dearly. Of course, when we did learn his full story, that made him even more lovable. The poor kid was abandoned as a toddler, suffered and nearly died of starvation until he was picked up by a mage. The mage who raised Soren was impatient, neglectful, and abusive. When the mage died, the preteen Soren was again left homeless. He was, thankfully, taken in by the philanthropic mercenary company that is your main party in Path of Radiance. It makes you want to wrap him up in a blanket, cuddle him, and hope he doesn't bite you (because he would). On top of all that, he's so pretty he looks like a girl. ;D 2) How do you like to see them suffer and how do you like to see them healed?Okay, I'll break this into two parts. Suffering: Soren goes through so much canon suffering, but it's all implied. I love the fics that dig out the clues and come out explicitly with his story. I also love the stories where Soren is taken prisoner and abused (physical and emotional abuse are best, but I will read sexual abuse). He's been hurt so badly that he's built up all these walls around himself to keep his loved ones out, and even though they shatter at one point in canon, it is only due to his own fear of death that he opens up. I like to see fanfiction take him to that breaking point and tear away his snarky, bitter exterior to reveal him as frightened and hurting. Healing: I love when characters deny that they were affected by their experiences, even when the evidence is obvious. It makes the breakdown much more poignant to me, as a reader. I also love when they are healed through the reclamation of personal power such as doing things they'd done before the abuse happened, or being able to take risks again. For Soren, healing usually takes the form of being able to reconnect with the people he was closest to, such as his fellow mercenaries (especially the ones who originally took him in). For Soren, the healing process pretty much has him eventually breaking down, usually to a character he's close to (Titania or Ike, typically, since Titania is like Soren's foster mom and Ike is Soren's canon-hinted love interest/a person Soren would die for) and usually just letting himself cry. Soren feels like he has to be strong all the time, so getting him to break down is a big deal. When he does, he realizes that the people he loves don't think of him as dirty/destroyed/not worthwhile. He's able to realize that he has a family who loves him and would go to the ends of the earth for him. Even though the memories remain, the character does not let them rule his life or his actions. Why do I like this? Well, the physical and sexual abuse I'm not sure of. Probably because I've experienced both and the solidarity I feel with character makes the healing part resonant more strongly with me. The emotional abuse is definetely more clinical in nature. I'm just plain interested in the way words affect people. They have great power, and that power wielded against a person can be devastating. I love H/C where the emphasis is on healing. Beware that I am corny, but I feel like, through a character's healing, I can become stronger and heal a little from my own experiences. Since fiction is rarely a reflection of real life, it's a place where I can see a clean, happy healing process-- a fantasy, so to speak. Real life does not have the brilliant ending of a good H/C fic, but it still makes me feel very warm and fuzzy inside when I read it. 3) What kind of relationships do you like to see them involved in?I adore familial relationships, especially with this character. I love some of the older ones where Soren, as a result of being hurt, becomes closer to the mercenaries. Several of the mercenaries are established in canon as being rather maternal/paternal in nature, and they're usually the ones who look out for Soren anyway, especially Titania, who, as mentioned before, is pretty much the team's mother figure. Soren's got this big, weird, very emotionally supportive family in the mercenary group. I also don't mind romantic relationships in H/C, though I'm more focused on the familial relationships. Soren is, in canon, closest to Ike, so Ike is usually the character I see Soren paired up with. Soren is not someone who I could feasibly see in very many romantic relationships because of his personality, but he does to seem to fit very well with Ike. I like the relationship because it's very low key and more like a very close, very trusting partnership. 4) Is this character the same in the canon as they are in fandom, or have they been altered in some way?Fandom does a pretty good job of keeping him the same as in canon, but he usually comes out a little differently. Writers tend to support the Ike/Soren ship by playing Soren's trust and dedication to Ike, to the point where they forget that NO ONE is safe from Soren's sharp tongue, not even Ike. Sometimes writers will also portray Soren as passive. Soren's canon character is that of someone who is always thinking and taking action. For the most part, though, since he does have a breakdown in canon, fanfiction writers are able to stay in character with him and use the canon as a reference. I hope that's enough info. I was kind of surprised to realize that I even had a "type" when it comes to H/C.
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Post by space1traveler on Apr 20, 2009 21:13:39 GMT -5
Hands down my favourite character: John Sheppard. Running a close second: Rodney McKay (who has won me over from total dislike in cannon). Third runner-ups: Any of Team Sheppard.
Attractive/Importance: I touched on this in the other discussion but John Sheppard embodies many of the attributes that I think are worth having. He's stupidly brave; loyal; protective; strong; smart; sports a 'cool' factor for fast machines, Ancient tech, and ferris wheels; funny; quirky; wide-eye wondering; romantic in an old-fashion way; loving; ill at ease with emotional display; doesn't take himself too seriously, but does take his job seriously, and has a huge not inferiority complex, but more of a "how the hell did I get this job and when is someone going to realize that this has been a mistake and the wrong person is piloting the jumper" syndrome. If I had an ater ego, I would be John Sheppard, dashing handsome hero, squashing injustice and wrong in two galaxies when needed and mild-mannered Space1Traveler when 'all is right with the world'. Another thing is that he chose Rodney for his team. Rodney was ostrasized by nearly everyone because of his attitude, but John saw pass all that and excepted him for his abilities. Not only that, but got to know the man and thus found a true friend for life. These are the things that make him so attractive to me.
Suffering: John can suffer in any form or fashion but death is unacceptable (unless he's resurrected before the end of the story and put back to rights).
Healing is best when it includes long team bedside vigils and protectiveness. John really shines when he drags himself off of his sick bed to save Atlantis and the expedition. But eventually, after long convalescence, he walks out of the infirmary or his room ready to tackle the bad guys once again.
Relationships: If John finds true love, I'm all for it, be it male or female. I don't like to see him in any type of relationship where he is being forced, abused, or being the abuser. I feel that John being an abuser is not congruent with what he does on a daily basis, which is hurt only the bad guys.
Cannon vs Fandom: The John Sheppard that lives in cannon has great potential, but he is nothing compared to the fandom John. Fandom John doesn't even look or sound (voice) anything like the Cannon John. I never hear in my mind Joe Flanigan's raspy voice unless Fandom John is being man-handled or recovering in a delightfully whumpilicious way.
This discussion stuff is so much fun!
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Post by stealthdragon on Apr 21, 2009 0:39:59 GMT -5
John Sheppard, Stargate Atlantis. - I'm not shy to admit that what first attracted me to him was the fact that he was attractive . That tends to be a major selling point for me when it comes to a new show. However, whether I stick with that show depends on the personality of the character. Sheppard, to me, wasn't the cliche hero. He was brave, dashing, strong, etc but he was also both street and book smart, and a total dork. Instead of quoting Sheakspeare, he'd quote Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy, and that dorkiness is what truly endeared me to him. I can't stand cliche heroes that are either too perfect or obnoxiously emo. Sheppard, I felt, was a nice balance of emo, humor and foibles. He was also someone I could relate to in some ways - he had a tough time expressing meotions, was not big into hugging: two things I totally get. Which is why I think I get so protective of him when he's chastised for not being more emotionally open. It ain't easy, people! Trust me. Finally, that every episode didn't have him sleeping with some bimbo finalized everything. I hate it when the hero is little more than a walking sex machine. It's cliche, it's obnoxious, and I want something different, consarnit! Sheppard was different But that's just my humble opinion. - I like the hurt part of hurt/comfort to be interesting: smart bullets that leech toxins into the body, or come alive and burrow its way to the heart; parasites that cause insanity; caught in a contraption that's wreaking havoc on mind and body and so on. But I'm also partial to good, old fashioned bullets or cuts, too;) Though I do like a good whump for whumping's sake story on occasion, I much prefer it when the whump is a plot device rather than the plot. Neither do I want the whump to be some piddly little flesh wound, nor something that's going to keep my boy out of comission for the entire story. I also like whump throughout the story. The sooner the author gets to the whump, the happier I am. It doesn't have to be major whumpage throughout - a little hurt here and there before the big "owie" finale will also do. What can I say, I'm impatient. The more the hurt, the better. I think my favorite form of whump is anything that causes the character to lose weight, go a little weak. This isn't popular with most, but I've always been a fan of the underdog hero, and to me - especially for a guy like Sheppard - this would be something else he'd have to overcome on top of everything else. And I love it when the "weak" guy ends up taking out the muscular brute. Plus, also for me, it makes him more human, moving the focus away from his good looks onto him as a human being with frailties. I know weight-loss and such isn't the only way to go about it, but it's the way I usually like to go about it. Broken ribs comes next - much portential for punctured lungs and other such problems. Illness, especially infections. My least favorite method is gut wounds. Don't know why, but they always squick me. The healing must involve one or more of his friends taking care of him, distracting him from his weakness, and letting him know he's going to be okay. So, basically, caring and kindness. I'm a huge sucker for kindness stories. - Relationships? Friendship. I've never been a fan of pairings, at least in fanfiction. Firendship just has more of a kick for me than romantic pairings. - I would definitely say that Sheppard is rarely ever canon in fandom. We all have our individual views of a character, so the views of Sheppard in fanfic vary greatly. In some stories you have John flirting with every hot young thing he meets - in one story I read, he had illigitimate children all over Pegasus In others, he's gay (no slash pairings, he's just gay), or bi, and in others he's reluctant to form relationships. I've read stories where John takes insults from Rodney that, to me, John in canon would never put up with. In my own stories, I probably write John a lot more moral than how most people see him, but I personally don't see him as someone who would go around knocking up every woman he meets. You have the character bashers who absolutely despise the character and skew everything they see in canon to make the character look bad, and those who will use a least favorite character as a kind of "bad guy" to increase reader sympathy for the favorite character. Finally, you have fanon cliches - concepts found only in stories that have yet to be made canon, such as Sheppard making a break from the infirmary because he's bored. I think this, in turn, creates a lot of frustration, especially if you're somone who likes to give new stories by new or previously unknown authors a try. Views clash, people get annoyed and sometimes act on that annoyance by insulting the author or anyone who shares the views of that author (just one example of fandom wank)
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Post by supernoodle on Apr 21, 2009 15:38:26 GMT -5
Ok, my favourite character to whump at the moment is Dean Winchester from Supernarural. I saw two episodes of the show and just became obsessed by the Winchester boys. The relationship between the boys is so complex and unique and realistic and emotionally charged, it's hard not to become drawn in by that. And Dean is such a strong character, yet inside he is so damged and full of hurt - just a lost and frightened little boy, he is entirely irresitable to write about. Plus it doesn't hurt that Jensen Ackles who plays him is utterly gorgeous.
How do you like to see them suffer and how do you like to see them healed?
For me, the suffering has to be realistic - a situation that could happen in real life or on the show. Can be minor or major pain or injuries, but nothing too over the top, or something that he wouldn't recover from - I'm not into rape, or brain injuries or amputations, I want Dean to be okay at the end of the story - but it has to happen to Dean and it's all the better if he is being cared for by his brother, Sam or his dad or friend Bobby. I like hospital fics, but only if the medical detail is written believably - I'm a sucker for medical jargon and it really ruins a story for me if someone hasn't done their research. If I write a fic that involves an injury or medical procedure, I research it to make sure it's correct. Emotional angst is good to read too, but only if someone makes it better. Dean is such a manly, stoic character - yet with real emotional depth, and because of this, he is the most fun to whump.
What kind of relationships do you like to see them involved in?
Supernatural is all about the brothers. Dean being there for Sam, protecting his little brother, so I guess that's why I like Sam to be the protector in my writing. It's more fun to hurt the strong characters, to explore feelings and situations that would rarely be on the show. There is also a wonderful dynamic between the boys and their father, and their father figure, Bobby singer. I could do without original female characters, because it's all about the boys for me, but occasionally I'll write one in - but it's unlikely I'll ever give the boys a girlfriend in one of my stories.
Is this character the same in the canon as they are in fandom, or have they been altered in some way?
Everyone has their own take on the characters that they write about - but I prefer to keep them in cannon as much as possible. I don't like stories that stray too far into fandom that the characters aren't themselves any more. I don't want to read Girl!Dean fics, or Vampire!Dean fics, and I certainly wouldn't write them. Why not just invent your own characters if you are going to change existing characters so much?
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Post by listyfox on Apr 22, 2009 15:50:17 GMT -5
My favorite character...a hard choice to make. There are several I love whumping.
I think for this instance I'll go with Heero Yuy, Gundam Wing, my most current victim:
I like him because he is such a conflicted character, with almost a dual personality. He wiped away Relena's tears while he told her he would kill her. He has been conditioned into a killing machine, but beneath that is a kind, noble soul. I see him as deep and complex and always struggling with what he is and who he should be, which for some reason is quite attractive, as is his innate kindness.
He is great to hurt physically because he is this perfect soldier who can survive horrible damage. He blew himself up and survived in canon. An author can put his body through just about anything that would kill a normal person, and keep the suspension of disbelief going when he stands up (or at least keeps breathing). He recovers the same way he does everything: through stubborn determination, usually ignoring the pain.
His internal suffering, however, can be even worse. Hating what his conditioning has caused him to do, confused by human interaction and his feelings for the people around him (and theirs for him) it doesn't take very much to really make him hurt. The added confusion when he feels deeply just adds to the hurt. He is so stoic that when he finally breaks it is heart-wrenching.
Specifically, I like situations where he is "trapped" or restrained, either literally or figuratively, such as when he is captured, jailed later for his actions, unable to break from his conditioning or even in just a bad situation or relationship. Perhaps as an allegory for his internal state.
Healing usually comes from kindness and understanding as he works through his pain and frees himself. Duo Maxwell is best, because he has always accepted Heero as is, neither condemning his actions nor idealizing him as the perfect soldier, as other characters are apt to do. His kind words, neither harsh nor sentimental, often just casual chatter about nothing in particular, are often what Heero needs to free him from that dark place.
However, any of the pilots can fill the role of comforter in his own way. Relena too, is the other choice for comfort if she is written correctly, and Zechs, his main rival in the series, understands him better than Relena does, and in the right story can offer great words of wisdom.
I gotta say, I like to see Heero on the receiving end of relationships. I think it works, because he needs to be led while he learns about human interaction, and as a soldier conditioned to taking orders, it makes sense that he end up in the somewhat more submissive role. Ergo, my favorite yaoi stories are those where Heero is uke to Duo's seme, which is not the norm (though I think it has been increasing in popularity a bit). In het romance, I like to see him seduced (even harder to find, so I usually write it myself). Oddly, it seems that whenever I have written him in any het relationship, it has turned out somewhat unhealthy on one level or another, and he ends up turning to Duo, if only in friendship, for help. He has stated more than once in my crossover that he is abnormal, and therefore any relationship he is in will be abnormal as well. Whether this is true or merely a self-fulfilling prophesy is hard to say, even by the author.
By design, the characters of the pilots of Gundam Wing can be interpreted in different ways. Not everyone sees Heero in canon quite the way I do. One can either see him as a killing machine who is learning emotion, or a kind soul who has been conditioned to his current state, and I choose the latter. I also usually write him as older than his canon age of fifteen, in stories that take place years after the series.
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Post by azalea3 on Apr 23, 2009 23:44:38 GMT -5
• 1 What is it about this character which makes them so attractive and important to you?
My prime fandom is Star Trek the original series. My favorite character is James Tiberius Kirk. In the early days of Trek fandom, Kirk fans were much rarer than Spock fans. It was cool to ‘grok’ Spock, and Kirk was, well, part of the military industrial complex, and therefore suspect. (It was the sixties after all.)
In spite of Kirk being regarded as Mr. Establishment, I still loved the character and that love has only grown through time. Kirk was designed by the writers with all the traditional manly virtues. He was brave, loyal, intelligent, a gentleman, a man of action, a superb strategist, an outdoorsman, a lover of literature and philosophy, an antiquarian, an historian, a Shakespeare spouter, a chess master, and many other things.
But it wasn’t the traditional virtues that attracted me to him. It was his ability to think outside his limitations. He possessed a mind always ready to reinvent the situation he was in. He was smart and he knew it, but he knew Spock was smarter and wasn’t intimidated. He was willing to risk looking like a fool, and willingly sacrificed his dignity to achieve his ends. He had a difficult childhood, and survived a concentration camp when he was a young teenager.
He is relentless in the pursuit of truth even if it takes him into dark places, and he learned just how ugly the world could be from Kodos, and yet he remains an optimist, not letting his childhood experience with evil define him.
He laughs at life, he enjoys himself, he eats too much, he has bad hair, he enjoys goofing around with his friends, needling McCoy, one-upping Spock and chasing women who are obviously wrong for him.
There was always a little of the ‘snotty-frat-boy’ about James T. Kirk. Shatner remains unsurpassed in his portrayal of the prancing, smirking, pretty-boy buttoned-down, wiseass Kirk. (Joe Flanigan does a similar and respectable Job as John Sheppard--you can see the parallels) Kirk is a frustrating guy to love but once he’s gotten under your skin you willingly cheer him on, especially when he wins against impossible odds and he always wins. Few leading men in Shatner’s era could pull off the trifecta of comedy, pathos and bravura--so outrageously ‘out there’ that it pours oven into pure sublime—but Shatner did it. Only Ricardo Montalban could keep up with him. Nimoy was wise enough to act in counter point to him with sly-dignity and smug silence. Kirk and Spock are an iconic pair like Watson and Sherlock, Aubrey and Maturin, Sheppard and McKay, Moulder and Skulley all men of action paired with a conflicted man (and woman) of science. I love that combination.
• 2 How do you like to see them suffer and how do you like to see them healed?
Kirk knows all his life that he will die alone. He is a man with great interior strength, and a profound sense of his destiny. The great love of his life, (whether you want to slash them or not), is Spock. This is canon, and their relationship is one of the central themes of Star Trek
Kirk has internalized a personal mythology that he is destined to live and die alone. As an observer of his life, I want to alter that misplaced vision and change it so he can find happiness. And that is what fanfiction is for, fixing the mistakes.
Slash or K/S was born when fans started questioning and disagreeing with this hurtful destiny. It wasn’t even a question of sex, or being gay—initially-- it was the seeking of a solution to end their suffering--Spock from his relentless mating cycle and Kirk from his restless loneliness. But the origin of slash is just an aside here.
Today fans use the Hurt-Comfort (H-C) term as a name for a genre of fan fiction. I still tend to think of H-C as a writer’s device for adding emotional punch to relationship stories. I think of H-C as being a method that is found in all categories of fan writing. Action Adventure, First Time stories, AU’s—all of them. Hurt-Comfort, also called gitch, angst, get-stories, pounce-stories and now whump, very quickly became a stand alone story category, but it didn’t start out that way. The H-C scenario as I recall it was originally a writer’s device, and as an ‘accelerant to intimacy,’ no other technique was as ruthlessly efficient. It brings sensation and instant audience involvement to a story. Some fans have complained that the ‘Hurt’ part of Hurt-Comfort erotizes violence and goes overboard on titillation. I only agree with that for certain extreme stories, in most stories the violence is usually in line with the scale of the plot. And the stories I prefer are the ones that actually have a plot. There could be a whole sub-genre of Hurt-comfort out there I don’t know about. (PWP/H-C) I’m afraid to ask—yikes. In fan-fiction stories, especially short vignettes and action adventure-stores H-C is the most efficient way to draw the audience into a story quickly. It is a very successful formula. It can be used with sophistication by experienced writers and with relative ease by beginning writers—H-C works in a user friendly manner, which is why so many beginning writers are attracted to that template. That’s why it’s ubiquitous. The quickest way to enliven prose is to the ‘hammer’ the hero. It is said that the key to a good story is getting your characters into trouble and keeping them there. H-C is one of the favorite methods of doing that. It’s a short cut that works especially well with emotionally reticent characters. Many fans have commented on the implausibility that trauma, and intense pain is conducive to getting people together. I tend to agree with that. when I dislocated my arm I was in no mood to appreciate the ‘finer traits ’ of the man who was putting my arm back in it’s socket, it happed to be a friend doing the deed and I can report that I didn’t feel any special bonding going on, mostly I was gritting my teeth trying not to vomit. But then maybe that’s just me, perhaps I’m not enough of a romantic. LOL. As I discovered it isn’t the ‘Hurt’ part of H-C that merges people together it is the aftermath of the trauma. It’s the recovery, the healing, the talking, the working things out that most matters to me. The character’s recovery and re-evaluation of self is just more interesting. That is what I concentrate on when I write H-C scenes into my stories. Comfort stories are a special favorite of mine. Even better is a ‘Comfort’ story not preceded by any ‘Hurt’, but those stories are hard to set up, The desire not to have a whumper explains the perennial popularity of the hero gets-- drunk, drugged, sick, tired or spazed-out stories. It’s all about getting the reader inside the head of the character, seeing the changes going on. Watching as the character’s self-definition realigns or even better watching the character heal by letting go of old pain. We learn from these stories how to get rid of our own pain, and that is the ‘second story’ within the main story, which speaks to our own escapes--about how to recover or how to change. I was told by a writer friend that all stories should actually be two stories; I think she might have been quoting Grace Paley. But where ever the thought comes from I think it is correct. I think that is why a Hurt-Comfort scenario by itself isn’t enough; it must function within a deeper story to tell deeper truths. Hurt-Comfort is ultimately a catalyst to bring about change. And I hope that when Kirk changes or Spock changes they might see each other differently and have the courage to make their lives better. It is not a guarantee, but then nothing is.
3 What kind of relationship do you like to see them in
Any relationship that works and solves the emotional and security needs of my characters. I want Kirk to find happiness no matter how convoluted the journey.
• • 4 Is this character the same in the canon as they are in fandom, or have they been altered in some way?
I like the dynamic of reading and writing stories within the constraints of their parent universe. Even when I explore an AU (alternate universe) the characters remain recognizable. They behave in ways most other fans would say that’s Spock or that’s Kirk. However, I have a very expansive imagination, so what I consider AU might be considered too ‘far out’ by many readers.
Rather than write a story with extreme ‘character’ changes, I think I would write an original non-Trek story. There is a point where an AU shatters under too much strangeness, and at that point if you choose to continue writing you are making original fiction. I know several writers who have published their ‘busted’ Star Trek AUs as original SF.
Most of the Trek fan-fiction stories I have read are close to the canon or at least close to reasonable extrapolations from the canon. Star Trek because of the great variety of canon story-experiments leaves a lot of running room and fans use that to their advantage.
The Trek universe (TOS) has changed as its audience has aged. And fan-fiction also mirrors that. For instance the Kirk of 1966 is different from the Kirk of 2009 even though it’s the same episode, then and now, audiences see him differently so fans write him differently. If I concentrate and try to filter out 40 years of change I can call that 1966 guy back into reality. He was so cool. The Trek universe was the world as you wanted it to be, so much so, you were willing to overlook the sexism, the bad props, the stupid hair, dumb story ideas (Spocks Brain) and all the other annoyances. Fans today, bless them; usually write their stories without those annoyances and that is why I’m still reading them.
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Post by gaunicorn on May 3, 2009 18:41:04 GMT -5
The only fandom I do anything more that lurk around is Stargate Atlantis. Although I am a huge Rodney McKay fan, the character I love to whump the most is LtCol John Sheppard. Besides being extremely good looking, he is the character on the show with the mysterious background. We are told in the the first episode that he screwed up while stationed in Afghanistan and is being punished by this assignment in the Antarctic. We get dribs-and-drabs about his backstory: does not send a "death letter" home - does this mean he has no family or is estranged?; when given a chance to build an idyllic world to live in he populates it with dead friends and people who have rejected him - why?; and similar hints. Outwardly his is laidback and easy going - very unmilitary, but in one episode he conducted a one-man guerilla war and killed over 50 people. So, why do I like to see him whumped (besides wanting to kiss his boo-boos better )? I want to see the John Sheppard that we get to see too rarely in the show, the man under the slouch and the grin. I want to know why he and McKay are friends and what they do when not getting chased by aliens and saving Atlantis. I want to know why the other team members follow him and care about him. And why he cares about these people. Whumping provides a great opportunity to explore these things. Relationships? In fic I don't want to see it unless it's canon. Has the character been changed? Oh, hell, yes. There are those who can't write military people without being derogatory. The people who write kidfic or slavefic or on-and-on. And, of course, there's the 'shippers and the slashers. Of the two, I prefer the het genre (unless the character is portrayed as gay on the show). As I've said before, I like my fic to stick close to canon. I think that a persons sexuality is a very large contributing factor to their personality. Writing fic and changing a character from heterosexual to homosexual (or to a kid or a slave, etc) completely changes the character that I have come to know (and love) on a show. And if it's not that character, why would I want to read/write about him? Why not just write an original fic?
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